@Tower
Dein Auszug ist 31" Leiste unten "Archers actuel draw length in inch" wie Zentauer schon ausgerechnet hast Du 69# auf den Fingern. Bei Hawk wie links neben der Tabelle beschrieben 10 - 15 # weniger also biss 60 nach oben bei 60 nach links ist 90/95 AMO Spine Weight. Hoffe ich habe Dich nun nicht völlig verwirrt und wie meine Vorposter schon schrieben - ist nur ein Anhaltswert.
Gruß madbike
Der richtige Spine????
Border Tabelle
Zwei Monologe, die sich gegenseitig immer wieder st?rend unterbrechen, nennt man eine Diskusion
(Charls Tschopp, Schweizer Aphoristiker 1899-1992)
Veg'e - tar'i - an an old Indian word meaning "Bad Hunter"
(Charls Tschopp, Schweizer Aphoristiker 1899-1992)
Veg'e - tar'i - an an old Indian word meaning "Bad Hunter"
Border Tabelle....
Habe es mir jetzt mal ganz einfach gemacht und eine Mail an Border gepostet. Die sollen ihre blöde Tabelle mal erläutern. Werde die Antwort - so nützlich - dann ins Forum stellen.
;-)
Wundere mich aber schon, dass es so wenig Bogenschützen gibt, die zu diesem Thema was beitragen. Ich dachte immer die richtige Pfeilauswahl sei das A und O.:-o
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
;-)
Wundere mich aber schon, dass es so wenig Bogenschützen gibt, die zu diesem Thema was beitragen. Ich dachte immer die richtige Pfeilauswahl sei das A und O.:-o
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
Das Leben ist zu kurz um sich mit minderwertigen Dingen zufrieden zu geben! Besonders Schwerter, B?gen, Menschen allgemein, Freunde, Sexual- wie auch Lebenspartner!
Das Problem ist nur, daß zwei Leute mit identischen Bögen nicht unbedingt die gleichen Pfeile schiessen, da der Schütze selbst mit seinem Stil eine Variable ist, die du in keiner Tabelle findest.
Darum heisst es ja: mehrere Spinegruppen kaufen und AUSTESTEN!
Darum heisst es ja: mehrere Spinegruppen kaufen und AUSTESTEN!
Der Sch?tzenverein:
Schiessen lernen, Freunde Treffen.
Schiessen lernen, Freunde Treffen.
@ Nullman
Hi,
das musst Du mir erklären! Wenn z.B. zwei Menschen einen 40# Bogen mit 30" Auszug schiessen, wie beinträchtigt dann der "Schiess-Stil" den benötigten Spinewert oder das benötigte Gewicht?? Erscheint mir unlogisch aber ich kann mich irren und lerne gerne dazu!!!
Welche Variablen spielen da rein??
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
das musst Du mir erklären! Wenn z.B. zwei Menschen einen 40# Bogen mit 30" Auszug schiessen, wie beinträchtigt dann der "Schiess-Stil" den benötigten Spinewert oder das benötigte Gewicht?? Erscheint mir unlogisch aber ich kann mich irren und lerne gerne dazu!!!
Welche Variablen spielen da rein??
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
Das Leben ist zu kurz um sich mit minderwertigen Dingen zufrieden zu geben! Besonders Schwerter, B?gen, Menschen allgemein, Freunde, Sexual- wie auch Lebenspartner!
1. Sauberkeit des Ablasses
2. wie steif wird der Bogen mit dem Arm gehalten
(je steifer, umso niedriger muss der Spinewert des Pfeiles sein, da er weiter um den Bogen herum muss. Versuch mal, nen Bogen in einen Schraubstock zu spannen, du wirst dich wundern, wie weich die Pfeile da sein müssen, damit die sauber fliegen)
Sind erst mal nur zwei, aber reicht wohl.
2. wie steif wird der Bogen mit dem Arm gehalten
(je steifer, umso niedriger muss der Spinewert des Pfeiles sein, da er weiter um den Bogen herum muss. Versuch mal, nen Bogen in einen Schraubstock zu spannen, du wirst dich wundern, wie weich die Pfeile da sein müssen, damit die sauber fliegen)
Sind erst mal nur zwei, aber reicht wohl.
Der Sch?tzenverein:
Schiessen lernen, Freunde Treffen.
Schiessen lernen, Freunde Treffen.
@ Nullman
Hi,
das hört sich extrem interessant an, werde das mal nachvollziehen. Besten Dank!!!
Wenn Du weitere Variablen kennst, lass es mich wissen!!!
Das erklärt einige meiner schlimmsten Befürschtungen bezüglich meiner Standardfehler!:(
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
das hört sich extrem interessant an, werde das mal nachvollziehen. Besten Dank!!!
Wenn Du weitere Variablen kennst, lass es mich wissen!!!
Das erklärt einige meiner schlimmsten Befürschtungen bezüglich meiner Standardfehler!:(
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
Das Leben ist zu kurz um sich mit minderwertigen Dingen zufrieden zu geben! Besonders Schwerter, B?gen, Menschen allgemein, Freunde, Sexual- wie auch Lebenspartner!
-
NORBERT SCHLIEBENER
- Hero Member
- Beiträge: 591
- Registriert: 06.08.2003, 23:46
@ Trifftnix
Was ist der Druckpunkt??
J.R.
J.R.
Das Leben ist zu kurz um sich mit minderwertigen Dingen zufrieden zu geben! Besonders Schwerter, B?gen, Menschen allgemein, Freunde, Sexual- wie auch Lebenspartner!
RE: @ Trifftnix
Original geschrieben von Tower
Was ist der Druckpunkt??
J.R.
Lexikon! Der Sch?tzenverein:
Schiessen lernen, Freunde Treffen.
Schiessen lernen, Freunde Treffen.
-
NORBERT SCHLIEBENER
- Hero Member
- Beiträge: 591
- Registriert: 06.08.2003, 23:46
Antwort von Border (engl.)
Hallo zusammen,
hier die Antwort von Border zu der Frage wie man ihre Tabellen lesen soll: (natürlich in Englisch!)
----------
Very sorry to have made something so complicated. We though that if we produced something that got archers closer to their requirements then they would start to enjoy their archer quicker. As you know final spine is not only specific to the power and efficiency of the bow but also the individual archer’s techniques. So in the end it comes down to trial and error. But we though that by giving some information based on our own experiences then this would help guide archers. Just trying to help
However if the info or the way it is displayed is too confusing perhaps we should withdraw it? To use the chart you need to know the actual draw-weight that you generate at your draw length. The power that you generate is one of those vital pieces of info that every archer needs if he is to tune his bow well.
Well the way it was supposed to work is as follows.
Look to the horizontal row listing draw length and go to your own draw length. Then go up until you find your draw weight at that draw length. When you have your particular draw weight at your particular draw length then look to the left hand column under AMO spine and the spine rating directly left or your draw weight is the rating we would suggest you start experimenting with. However this chart is for high performance recurves.
In your case you are looking at a 60lbs bow drawn 30 to 31”. The chart in reality was draw up for the higher performance bows than the Falcon and if the bow is a Falcon from over 5 years ago then the chart should be ignored. However here goes for your example.
Bow 60lbs at 28” but drawn to 30” then actual bow weight at 30”: (For bows below 50lbs then they put on approximately 2lbs for every 1” drawn). (For bows over 60lbs they are generating about 2.5 to 3lbs for every 1” drawn). These are very rough guides and so your bow would be approximately 65 to 66lbs at your draw length. (Much better to actually have your bow weighed at you own draw length). So go to the draw length row and at 30” go up directly above to 65lbs and then horizontally left to the AMO column and that reads 95 to 100 lbs or 100 to 105lbs. You will have difficulty in getting wood shafts to this spine level.
As said the chart was really set out to help understand high performance recurves. For our Griffon and Harrier longbows we would suggest 5 to 10 lbs less spine. For the new generation of Falcon longbows we would suggest 15 to 20 lbs less. And if the Falcon is older that 5 years then I would think that 70 to 75 would do.
I shoot a Black Douglas Ultra 60” and 67lbs at 28” HEXIV limbs. I need 95 to 100’s work really well. I now shoot aluminium’s because I can’t get enough shafts at this spine. I do a lot of roving and 3D (we have a 40-target 3D course here at Border and it is hard on arrows.
You can get tapered Cedar shafts from Rogue River Archery in the USA. Their shafts are about 36 dollars per dozen. Now if you contact them then their spines are somehow different. My own spine machine reads AMO spine however in the higher spines Rogue River Archery rate them higher. So 85 to 90 actual you would need to order 100 to 105’s from them to get the same deflection. Don’t ask me why they do!
I have had many archers who said that they could not shoot woods properly but once they followed the advice given then their minds were changed. I have also had archers disagree. And some had good reason to disagree the advice did not fit for them and their technique. There are also many who love to tell you that you are wrong and if that is what gives then pleasure then fine I don’t mind just don’t ask me to shoot in their group. I have been shooting for 30 years now and after 30 years the only thing that I have managed to learn is what I like in a bow and what works well for me. I think that what you know and what you don’t know as an individual stands by what you do and what you achieve. Our bow stand as a measure of what we now and what skills we have. Our knowledge of shooting bows is a measure of how well we shoot, how our equipment performs. If any of you want to come over here and challenge me to a competition head to head (not a major organised archery competition where the rules get all screwed up) then I’m up for it. I’m not the best around but I’m sure that whoever is shooting against me will have to work really hard to prove that he is a better shot. So why not come over and the looser can buy the beers?
The first thing is to understand is what draw weight that you are generating. Until you have that worked out then how would you start to get it together?
One other point if you cant your bow when shooting and the cant is greater than say 30 degrees then you may need to go 5lbs in spine heavier again. Canting the bow reduces the left movement of the arrow (right handed archer) (arrows drop right and low) So you need extra spine to get the left element back and the height. This advice is comparing and archer who angles his bow when shooting compared to one who shoots upright.
All very individual and I hope sincerely that it helps and if it doesn’t work for you it does for me J
Best regards
Sid
P>S> happy to exchange ideas unless you are the type that just likes to sneer and devalue other in which case not in my shooting group please.
www.borderbows.com
sid@borderbows.com
+44 (0) 1573 410 295
--------
Ich möchte mal anmerken, dass die Antwort auf meine Anfrage nicht einmal 24 Std. gebraucht hat. Das nenne ich Kundenbindung und optimale Beratung!
"Border for ever!"
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
hier die Antwort von Border zu der Frage wie man ihre Tabellen lesen soll: (natürlich in Englisch!)
----------
Very sorry to have made something so complicated. We though that if we produced something that got archers closer to their requirements then they would start to enjoy their archer quicker. As you know final spine is not only specific to the power and efficiency of the bow but also the individual archer’s techniques. So in the end it comes down to trial and error. But we though that by giving some information based on our own experiences then this would help guide archers. Just trying to help
However if the info or the way it is displayed is too confusing perhaps we should withdraw it? To use the chart you need to know the actual draw-weight that you generate at your draw length. The power that you generate is one of those vital pieces of info that every archer needs if he is to tune his bow well.
Well the way it was supposed to work is as follows.
Look to the horizontal row listing draw length and go to your own draw length. Then go up until you find your draw weight at that draw length. When you have your particular draw weight at your particular draw length then look to the left hand column under AMO spine and the spine rating directly left or your draw weight is the rating we would suggest you start experimenting with. However this chart is for high performance recurves.
In your case you are looking at a 60lbs bow drawn 30 to 31”. The chart in reality was draw up for the higher performance bows than the Falcon and if the bow is a Falcon from over 5 years ago then the chart should be ignored. However here goes for your example.
Bow 60lbs at 28” but drawn to 30” then actual bow weight at 30”: (For bows below 50lbs then they put on approximately 2lbs for every 1” drawn). (For bows over 60lbs they are generating about 2.5 to 3lbs for every 1” drawn). These are very rough guides and so your bow would be approximately 65 to 66lbs at your draw length. (Much better to actually have your bow weighed at you own draw length). So go to the draw length row and at 30” go up directly above to 65lbs and then horizontally left to the AMO column and that reads 95 to 100 lbs or 100 to 105lbs. You will have difficulty in getting wood shafts to this spine level.
As said the chart was really set out to help understand high performance recurves. For our Griffon and Harrier longbows we would suggest 5 to 10 lbs less spine. For the new generation of Falcon longbows we would suggest 15 to 20 lbs less. And if the Falcon is older that 5 years then I would think that 70 to 75 would do.
I shoot a Black Douglas Ultra 60” and 67lbs at 28” HEXIV limbs. I need 95 to 100’s work really well. I now shoot aluminium’s because I can’t get enough shafts at this spine. I do a lot of roving and 3D (we have a 40-target 3D course here at Border and it is hard on arrows.
You can get tapered Cedar shafts from Rogue River Archery in the USA. Their shafts are about 36 dollars per dozen. Now if you contact them then their spines are somehow different. My own spine machine reads AMO spine however in the higher spines Rogue River Archery rate them higher. So 85 to 90 actual you would need to order 100 to 105’s from them to get the same deflection. Don’t ask me why they do!
I have had many archers who said that they could not shoot woods properly but once they followed the advice given then their minds were changed. I have also had archers disagree. And some had good reason to disagree the advice did not fit for them and their technique. There are also many who love to tell you that you are wrong and if that is what gives then pleasure then fine I don’t mind just don’t ask me to shoot in their group. I have been shooting for 30 years now and after 30 years the only thing that I have managed to learn is what I like in a bow and what works well for me. I think that what you know and what you don’t know as an individual stands by what you do and what you achieve. Our bow stand as a measure of what we now and what skills we have. Our knowledge of shooting bows is a measure of how well we shoot, how our equipment performs. If any of you want to come over here and challenge me to a competition head to head (not a major organised archery competition where the rules get all screwed up) then I’m up for it. I’m not the best around but I’m sure that whoever is shooting against me will have to work really hard to prove that he is a better shot. So why not come over and the looser can buy the beers?
The first thing is to understand is what draw weight that you are generating. Until you have that worked out then how would you start to get it together?
One other point if you cant your bow when shooting and the cant is greater than say 30 degrees then you may need to go 5lbs in spine heavier again. Canting the bow reduces the left movement of the arrow (right handed archer) (arrows drop right and low) So you need extra spine to get the left element back and the height. This advice is comparing and archer who angles his bow when shooting compared to one who shoots upright.
All very individual and I hope sincerely that it helps and if it doesn’t work for you it does for me J
Best regards
Sid
P>S> happy to exchange ideas unless you are the type that just likes to sneer and devalue other in which case not in my shooting group please.
www.borderbows.com
sid@borderbows.com
+44 (0) 1573 410 295
--------
Ich möchte mal anmerken, dass die Antwort auf meine Anfrage nicht einmal 24 Std. gebraucht hat. Das nenne ich Kundenbindung und optimale Beratung!
"Border for ever!"
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
Das Leben ist zu kurz um sich mit minderwertigen Dingen zufrieden zu geben! Besonders Schwerter, B?gen, Menschen allgemein, Freunde, Sexual- wie auch Lebenspartner!
...ach ja...
.... bei Martin Archery habe ich die gleiche Anfrage auch gestellt (bin ja schliesslich Kunde von Martin und Border), aber da kam bisher nichts zurück! Nun gut, rechnen wir es der Zeitverschiebung zu Gute, Schottland und U.S.A. ist doch was anderes. "It's old europe!":) 
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
Beste Grüße!
J.R.
Das Leben ist zu kurz um sich mit minderwertigen Dingen zufrieden zu geben! Besonders Schwerter, B?gen, Menschen allgemein, Freunde, Sexual- wie auch Lebenspartner!
RE: Antwort von Border (engl.)
Original geschrieben von Tower
Ich möchte mal anmerken, dass die Antwort auf meine Anfrage nicht einmal 24 Std. gebraucht hat.
Und wenn man berücksichitgt, wie lange Sid zum Tippen der Antwort gebraucht haben muss, dann hat er praktisch sofort geantwortet! ;-) ;-) ;-)
Am besten gefiel mir die Stelle: "So why not come over and the looser can buy the beers?". Da hat er doch bestimmt den Looser hier aus dem Forum gemeint, oder? Ansonsten hätte er ja "loser" (mit einem 'o' = Verlierer) geschrieben. Also ich würde da evtl. mitgehen. Schottlandurlaub + Getränke gratis - das klingt echt gut... ;-)
Aber im Ernst: Super schnelle und ausführliche Antwort. So muss das sein. 8-)
Ratzi
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then stop. No use making a damn fool out of yourself. (W.C. Fields) ;-)
@ Ratzi etc.
Das mit dem "Schottlandurlaub" würde mich ja auch reizen. So ein kleiner Kurztrip um drei bis neun Pfeile in die Wildnis zu schicken und dann ab ins Pub..... 
Na ja, schauen wir mal!
J.R.
Na ja, schauen wir mal!
J.R.
Das Leben ist zu kurz um sich mit minderwertigen Dingen zufrieden zu geben! Besonders Schwerter, B?gen, Menschen allgemein, Freunde, Sexual- wie auch Lebenspartner!
mal eine Frage : der Langbogen den ich mir bald kaufen werde (millenium longbow) hat auch 28" auszug 40 Ibs ich habe 26" auszug also müsste ich ja ein Zuggewicht von ungefähr 34 Ibs haben oder ? die Pfeile sollen 28" lang seien (wenn das total falsch ist bitte korrigiren) also wären das ja 40 Ibs - 2 zoll = 40 - 6 = 34 kein weiter abzug weil der kein re/deflex hat und die pfeile auch genau 28" lang sind
also muss ich pfeile ahben mit spine 35 ne ?
aber es gibt 2 arten davon einmal die 30/35er
und einmal 35/40er ich möchte nicht 4 weitere Pfeile kaufen um zu testen wenns nicht seien muss und würde von euch gerne wissen wa ihr empfehlt 30-35 oder 35-40 . 35-40 wäre ja praktisch wenn mein auszug größer wird durchs wachsen (bin 15 jahre alt) :anbet
also muss ich pfeile ahben mit spine 35 ne ?
aber es gibt 2 arten davon einmal die 30/35er
und einmal 35/40er ich möchte nicht 4 weitere Pfeile kaufen um zu testen wenns nicht seien muss und würde von euch gerne wissen wa ihr empfehlt 30-35 oder 35-40 . 35-40 wäre ja praktisch wenn mein auszug größer wird durchs wachsen (bin 15 jahre alt) :anbet
Wenn du den Feind und dich selbst kennst, brauchst du den Ausgang von hundert Schlachten nicht zu f?rchten...
(Sunzi-Die Kunst des Krieges)
(Sunzi-Die Kunst des Krieges)